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GREEKS RIOTING ON THE STREETS OVER EURO, JOIN THEM NOW

 
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thomas davison
Party Leader


Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 4018
Location: northumberland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: GREEKS RIOTING ON THE STREETS OVER EURO, JOIN THEM NOW Reply with quote

For two decades the Mail has warned the euro would lead to rioting on the streets. Sadly, we were right
By Simon Heffer

Last updated at 11:41 PM on 13th February 2012


The spectacle of Athens burning on Sunday night as the Greek parliament voted on the German orders for harsher austerity measures surprised no one who has followed the euro from its idealistic conception decades ago to the painful reality of its existence today.

For years this paper � a lone voice in the wilderness � has warned that the imposition of a one-size-fits-all currency on Europe�s disparate nations would eventually lead to rioting in the streets. And so, tragically, it has proved.

The truth is the euro simply cannot survive if subjected to the forces of democracy.

Under siege: Officers battled a huge anti-austerity demonstration in Athens' Syntagma Square on Sunday night
And how bitterly ironic it is that Greece, the cradle of democracy, should be where the idea that political measures need the approval of the people has collided with the German-driven notion that rigid monetary control can be imposed upon them, along with an unelected technocrat as prime minister.

What the Greeks now know better than anyone is that such control might work in a highly successful economy such as Germany, but in a basket-case economy like Greece it simply serves to make a dire predicament even worse.

Unelected
For the moment, this catastrophe might seem to impinge upon us only because it could affect our contribution to an International Monetary Fund bailout of Greece.

I am afraid, however, that it is worse than that.

The EU is a profoundly anti-democratic institution. Do not be fooled by its �parliament�. Decisions that matter are taken by unelected bodies such as the Commission in Brussels and the European Central Bank in Frankfurt.

What is happening in Greece shows the dangers of anti-democratic interference in countries, which are used to being democracies � even if, in Greece�s case, despotism ended only in 1973 with the fall of the military junta.

The people become used to being consulted, and react badly when that right is taken away from them.

Catastrophe averted? If the bill had not been passed, Greece would have been denied a �110billion EU bailout package and finally run out of money
Just imagine how we would react if we had a prime minister imposed upon us, who was ordered to implement the wishes of a foreign power � wishes that, into the bargain, were inimical to our interests.

In true democracies, the deal is simple. People vote for the government and its policies.

If they don�t like the policies a government implements, they remove it by voting for a different one.

But in Greece there is a new definition of democracy, and one that many Greeks � and, indeed, many Europeans � will find intensely troubling.


It is a definition that includes removing an elected prime minister, George Papandreou, and replacing him with an unelected one, Lucas Papademos.

This fact is concealed by the Greek political establishment, the European leadership and the pro-European media describing Mr Papademos (and, indeed, his Italian counterpart, Mario Monti, who became prime minister in similar circumstances) as a �technocrat�.

It doesn�t make the effective dictatorship endured by the Greeks any less pressing.

Greece's parliament in disarray: What is happening in Greece shows the dangers of anti-democratic interference in countries
This same �technocrat� has in recent days used all the authority of his position to lecture elected politicians about their duty to support the new austerity package, and to blackmail them into doing so with dire warnings of Greece�s economic destruction if they refuse.

The fact is that even if the package is implemented � and there is every chance it won�t be � the country will still be headed for economic implosion. This is quite simply because demand has collapsed in Greece, dealing a savage blow to the efforts of businesses to survive.

The threatened reduction in buying power caused by the further loss of public sector jobs, without any stimulus to create new ones in the private sector, can only redouble the hardship many Greeks are experiencing.

There is no doubt Greece is in every respect the author of its own misfortunes. It should never have been allowed to join the euro.

Blighted by a useless and corrupt tax collection system and high levels of financial chicanery, it used the cheap money that came with joining the eurozone to borrow extravagantly, and lived way beyond its means.

Mistakes
It is not the first country to make these mistakes, and won�t be the last. However, outside the eurozone, countries that have these problems can decide for themselves how to rectify them. For the 17 countries that use the single currency, that power has been removed.

Simply changing the government in Greece � or, indeed, in any eurozone country, with the possible exception of Germany � won�t solve the problem.

Any party that wishes to govern must, if it wishes its country to remain in the euro, effectively follow policies dictated by the Germans, as the underwriters of the European economy. Greek voters will have a choice in the matter only once there is an electable party that wishes to take Greece out of the euro.

Chaos: This paper has long has warned that the imposition of a one-size-fits-all currency on Europe's disparate nations would eventually lead to rioting in the streets
When and if that happens there would be economic chaos for a while, but Greece and a devalued drachma would lead to recovery.

What we have seen on the streets of Athens in recent days is the only option open to people who are refused their democratic rights

The average Greek is protesting not merely about an inconvenience, but in many cases a personal catastrophe.

Pensions are being slashed. The elderly are reportedly dying of starvation. And some families are said to be putting their children into care because they can�t afford to look after them.



This has nothing to do with economics, and everything to do with politics. The single currency is a political construct. As President Sarkozy of France is so fond of saying, if the euro goes, Europe goes.

That is probably rubbish, but the most committed Europeans believe it to be true.

Abyss
And there is the fear that if Greece leaves the euro and manages not to disappear into the abyss, then other countries � notably Portugal and Ireland, but possibly Spain and Italy � would begin to ask out loud why they couldn�t revert to their own currencies, too.

This shocking disregard of the basic rights of the Greek people is unsustainable.

Given the ferocity with which they have risen up even before the next round of punishment, one dreads to think of how they will behave when they are actually having to endure these vicious cuts.

I find it very hard to believe Greece won�t default, because the catastrophe that is the Greek economy cannot go on like this, nor can the dictatorship that is crushing the people�s freedoms.

How much better it would be to reach a default by democratic means, rather than by riot and arson. But because Germany and the Commission simply refuse to acknowledge what is happening, one fears in the weeks ahead the lesson is going to be learned very hard � and not just in Greece


Referenda in France and the Netherlands were ignored. The ones in Ireland were retaken until the right result came through. Greece and Italy have unelected PMs and cabinets. Germany dictates economic policy and misery on southern Europe while its Chancellor campaigns in France for the President because the opinion poll choice of the French is not suitable for her. In the UK Abu Qatada is allowed out on the streets because the ECHR places his rights above those of our citizens. Throughout Europe there is record unemployment at levels not seen since the Great Depression, the rich and powerful get more rich and more powerful and everyone else seems to be ignored except for taxation. We in Britain - and ordinary Europeans all over the EU - have lost control of our own economy, our own rights, our own country and our own destiny

The world is heading for a crash that will make the great depression look like a picnic. It's a question of when. Then all the rules will change.

Strange we also have an unelected government and they are pushing all sorts of taxes down our throats plus devaluing our currancy of the pretext that it keeps down inflation, nuts, maybe we should take a leaf out of the Greeks book and start with our MPs who it seems are back on the gravey train again.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: GREEKS RIOTING ON THE STREETS OVER EURO, JOIN THEM NOW Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

thomas davison wrote:
For two decades the Mail has warned the euro would lead to rioting on the streets. Sadly, we were right
By Simon Heffer

Last updated at 11:41 PM on 13th February 2012


The spectacle of Athens burning on Sunday night as the Greek parliament voted on the German orders for harsher austerity measures surprised no one who has followed the euro from its idealistic conception decades ago to the painful reality of its existence today.

For years this paper � a lone voice in the wilderness � has warned that the imposition of a one-size-fits-all currency on Europe�s disparate nations would eventually lead to rioting in the streets. And so, tragically, it has proved.

The truth is the euro simply cannot survive if subjected to the forces of democracy.

Under siege: Officers battled a huge anti-austerity demonstration in Athens' Syntagma Square on Sunday night
And how bitterly ironic it is that Greece, the cradle of democracy, should be where the idea that political measures need the approval of the people has collided with the German-driven notion that rigid monetary control can be imposed upon them, along with an unelected technocrat as prime minister.

What the Greeks now know better than anyone is that such control might work in a highly successful economy such as Germany, but in a basket-case economy like Greece it simply serves to make a dire predicament even worse.

Unelected
For the moment, this catastrophe might seem to impinge upon us only because it could affect our contribution to an International Monetary Fund bailout of Greece.

I am afraid, however, that it is worse than that.

The EU is a profoundly anti-democratic institution. Do not be fooled by its �parliament�. Decisions that matter are taken by unelected bodies such as the Commission in Brussels and the European Central Bank in Frankfurt.

What is happening in Greece shows the dangers of anti-democratic interference in countries, which are used to being democracies � even if, in Greece�s case, despotism ended only in 1973 with the fall of the military junta.

The people become used to being consulted, and react badly when that right is taken away from them.

Catastrophe averted? If the bill had not been passed, Greece would have been denied a �110billion EU bailout package and finally run out of money
Just imagine how we would react if we had a prime minister imposed upon us, who was ordered to implement the wishes of a foreign power � wishes that, into the bargain, were inimical to our interests.

In true democracies, the deal is simple. People vote for the government and its policies.

If they don�t like the policies a government implements, they remove it by voting for a different one.

But in Greece there is a new definition of democracy, and one that many Greeks � and, indeed, many Europeans � will find intensely troubling.


It is a definition that includes removing an elected prime minister, George Papandreou, and replacing him with an unelected one, Lucas Papademos.

This fact is concealed by the Greek political establishment, the European leadership and the pro-European media describing Mr Papademos (and, indeed, his Italian counterpart, Mario Monti, who became prime minister in similar circumstances) as a �technocrat�.

It doesn�t make the effective dictatorship endured by the Greeks any less pressing.

Greece's parliament in disarray: What is happening in Greece shows the dangers of anti-democratic interference in countries
This same �technocrat� has in recent days used all the authority of his position to lecture elected politicians about their duty to support the new austerity package, and to blackmail them into doing so with dire warnings of Greece�s economic destruction if they refuse.

The fact is that even if the package is implemented � and there is every chance it won�t be � the country will still be headed for economic implosion. This is quite simply because demand has collapsed in Greece, dealing a savage blow to the efforts of businesses to survive.

The threatened reduction in buying power caused by the further loss of public sector jobs, without any stimulus to create new ones in the private sector, can only redouble the hardship many Greeks are experiencing.

There is no doubt Greece is in every respect the author of its own misfortunes. It should never have been allowed to join the euro.

Blighted by a useless and corrupt tax collection system and high levels of financial chicanery, it used the cheap money that came with joining the eurozone to borrow extravagantly, and lived way beyond its means.

Mistakes
It is not the first country to make these mistakes, and won�t be the last. However, outside the eurozone, countries that have these problems can decide for themselves how to rectify them. For the 17 countries that use the single currency, that power has been removed.

Simply changing the government in Greece � or, indeed, in any eurozone country, with the possible exception of Germany � won�t solve the problem.

Any party that wishes to govern must, if it wishes its country to remain in the euro, effectively follow policies dictated by the Germans, as the underwriters of the European economy. Greek voters will have a choice in the matter only once there is an electable party that wishes to take Greece out of the euro.

Chaos: This paper has long has warned that the imposition of a one-size-fits-all currency on Europe's disparate nations would eventually lead to rioting in the streets
When and if that happens there would be economic chaos for a while, but Greece and a devalued drachma would lead to recovery.

What we have seen on the streets of Athens in recent days is the only option open to people who are refused their democratic rights

The average Greek is protesting not merely about an inconvenience, but in many cases a personal catastrophe.

Pensions are being slashed. The elderly are reportedly dying of starvation. And some families are said to be putting their children into care because they can�t afford to look after them.



This has nothing to do with economics, and everything to do with politics. The single currency is a political construct. As President Sarkozy of France is so fond of saying, if the euro goes, Europe goes.

That is probably rubbish, but the most committed Europeans believe it to be true.

Abyss
And there is the fear that if Greece leaves the euro and manages not to disappear into the abyss, then other countries � notably Portugal and Ireland, but possibly Spain and Italy � would begin to ask out loud why they couldn�t revert to their own currencies, too.

This shocking disregard of the basic rights of the Greek people is unsustainable.

Given the ferocity with which they have risen up even before the next round of punishment, one dreads to think of how they will behave when they are actually having to endure these vicious cuts.

I find it very hard to believe Greece won�t default, because the catastrophe that is the Greek economy cannot go on like this, nor can the dictatorship that is crushing the people�s freedoms.

How much better it would be to reach a default by democratic means, rather than by riot and arson. But because Germany and the Commission simply refuse to acknowledge what is happening, one fears in the weeks ahead the lesson is going to be learned very hard � and not just in Greece


Referenda in France and the Netherlands were ignored. The ones in Ireland were retaken until the right result came through. Greece and Italy have unelected PMs and cabinets. Germany dictates economic policy and misery on southern Europe while its Chancellor campaigns in France for the President because the opinion poll choice of the French is not suitable for her. In the UK Abu Qatada is allowed out on the streets because the ECHR places his rights above those of our citizens. Throughout Europe there is record unemployment at levels not seen since the Great Depression, the rich and powerful get more rich and more powerful and everyone else seems to be ignored except for taxation. We in Britain - and ordinary Europeans all over the EU - have lost control of our own economy, our own rights, our own country and our own destiny

The world is heading for a crash that will make the great depression look like a picnic. It's a question of when. Then all the rules will change.

Strange we also have an unelected government and they are pushing all sorts of taxes down our throats plus devaluing our currancy of the pretext that it keeps down inflation, nuts, maybe we should take a leaf out of the Greeks book and start with our MPs who it seems are back on the gravey train again.


I dont think we have seen anything yet, there are 500,000 in Greece that literally have zero purchasing Power, last sunday it was 80,000 Greeks, next time it could be 500,000, 4,000 riot police will not be able to do anything when they are outnumberd 100 to 1, Greece also has an election in April, all the MPs that supported the Austerity will be voted out.
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thomas davison
Party Leader


Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 4018
Location: northumberland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is a stockmarket crash, and its coming because of the baby boomers in America retiring-------- they have by law to invest in stocks and shares all 78 million of them, when they begin to sell who will buy,
then you will see the very same scenes on our streets and every street in europe.
Hence we need a change of direction.
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